You've probably read all the headlines about it but I suggest taking 43mins to listen to entire piece so you can get full context around what you've read.
Garry Lyon (GL) – "It’s a Sunday believe it or not..."
Simon Goodwin (SG) – "We want to address things we don’t feel comfortable with..."
This being recorded on a Sunday indicates that Melbourne felt the need to get right out in front of this entire situation and they also released a letter from Pert to the supporter base around the same time. After being relatively silent on the things to date, this indicates that they are now ready to address them but then question begs - why take so long to do so?
SG – "No we don’t have a cultural problem, we’ve got some isolated incidents that we’re gonna deal with to help drive our culture forward..."
Sports Scientist Adam Virgile refers to culture as "mastering accountability by consistently doing all the right things when no one is looking", and based on that, isolated incidents would certainly come under the umbrella of culture.
SG – "Culture sits above everything we do in our footy club...alignment in behavior is critical but it doesn’t mean it’s gonna be perfect...you don’t get into a position where, finishing top 4 without having a high performing culture...we’ve got some imperfections that we need to sort out...we are putting ourselves consistently in positions for success at our footy club and that’s something we should be really proud of..."
It sounds like a little bit like they are separating culture and success, even if just slightly, but one cannot deviate at all from the other and always comes back to alignment and not letting one gravitate too far from the other, if at all.
SG – "I know where it started in terms of a rumor from down in the Mornington Peninsula and that then led to an allegation, an allegation that was fully investigated and found to have nothing in it - it went from a rumor to an allegation to a fact and it’s gotta stop..."
Gary Pert – "The 1 or 2 people where the rumor started from all said we didn't refer to drugs, we were referring to the fact that Simon was down at the Mornington Peninsular with some of our senior players (they were all staying down there on a training camp)..."
The Goodwin rumor mill covered the first good portion of the interview and fair enough too, if this happened years ago and nothing was ever proven whatsoever, with a major case of Chinese Whispers, then address this once and for all and hopefully the naysayers report the truth from now on but this could have been done way back when the investigation was completed and is actually not a part of the recent Melbourne FC issue by any stretch.
GP – "Scenario planning was performed during the investigation in case we did have a problem with a senior leader within the club, and that’s good governance, but there was no requirement for it (lack of evidence etc)..."
Just another situation of mainstream media going for clicks - does my absolute head in and really the juicier the headline, the less I'm inclined to actually read it.
SG – "What Clayton needs to be really clear on, is that we now have some minimum standards of behaviors that we want him to adhere to..."
GP - "It’s been constant challenge over a long period of time..."
I'm surprised with the language that NOW we have some minimum standards of behaviors - were they not in place before? Was culture more something they just believed was being followed but no actual individual/shared frameworks put in place?
GP – "What were dealing with now is with isolated behavioral issues where individual's are being held to account and when you have a cultural issues it's about do you have the leaders, leadership programs, standards, disciplines and accountability and we have all those programs in place...our culture is the best I’ve seen in 40 years of footy..."
Programs are great and are the bare minimum but as Garry points out...
GL – "I’m not buying it, to both of you...I hear what you’re saying bit it’s not playing out like that, the way we played in the back half of the season, the discipline, the blues – it doesn’t add up to a 40 year best standard of culture..."
..and he's bang on. Maybe they could ask the supporter base what they believe elite culture looks like to them, and incorporate some of that in to what they're trying to do going forward because then there's at least 1 part of the club not in alignment, which is what we've already said is crucial.
GP – "Particular behaviors are all being lumped in when they’re completely unrelated and it’s just a cop out to say individual behavior is a result of Gawn, Viney, Petracca, Neal Bulleen etc, when we lump it into the culture we’re saying these guys are failing but it lets the individual’s off the hook who aren’t living the standards..."
Pert already said that player 1 is judged the same as player 42 and are all held to the same standards yet he now says that we can't lump all players into cultural issues, in the most part run by these very same leaders so although they're not to blame for individual behavior, they do need to help somewhat accountable in the standards being allowed as the standards you walk past are the standards you allow and you condone what you don't confront.
GL – "Maybe it’s only a 2 – 4% of cultural strength that hasn’t been able to get this footy to where they need to be..."
GP – "We’ve left ourselves open to that because we haven’t won finals over the last 2 yrs..."
GL – "Isolated or not there are behavioral issues..."
GP – "Did we lose those games because of a lack of leadership or culture? No and in finals it’s not about who the best team is, it’s the best team on the day...do you win those things (McClelland Trophy) without actually having strong leaders and cultures, aligned from the board through the player leadership?...)
Connections made, or not made, through elite culture may not show up until 3mins left in a final, but they'll show up and they've had multiple on and off-field connection issues and could be a big reason why they've failed in finals recently.
GL – "What we stand for right now is good enough up to a point, and up to a point is been great but it’s hasn't gotten us where it’s needed to be..."
Culture usually precedes positive results so maybe the success of 2021 was too far ahead of the cultural change they were able to generate in that 1 season alone and thus hasn't been sustainable.
Culture is also layered so what worked at 1 stage of your team's development won't necessarily work once you've reached the upper echelon so it may need to be tinkered with or maybe a decent makeover as culture drives long term success, especially if you look at what Sydney and Geelong have done over the last 25 years.
GP – "If/when players misbehave it’s because they don’t understand or they’re not clear, or that we don't hold them accountable, - then we’ve got a cultural issue...our players fully understand they’re stepping out of our standards and disciplines and have felt the accountability from our football department and leadership group..."
I mentioned individual and team frameworks above and if these are in place, then everyone is clear of what the expectations are.
If Melbourne haven't put these things "in writing" then you can't really turn around and blame individual behavior as you haven't covered yourself as a club either.
SG – "Culture is ongoing so we got keep making sure we work on it all the time and it could be the difference between the next premiership at the Melbourne football club.."
GP – "A firmer, clearer tough love approached, based on expert advice is maybe more appropriate for Clayton right now..."
This fine but Oliver also stated he doesn't really know whey his personal issues have been brought up in public again so whatever the approach is, it has to be agreed upon by both parties and again, put "in writing.
GL – "How can you drive that standard if one can't quite get there (Oliver)?
This is pretty much what will determine how Melbourne come out of this in the short and long term. It sounds like Oliver has been provided more leeway then the others for whatever reason but maybe that's the problem for whatever is happening now with him and some of the others. They cannot let his undeniable talent and performance output affect their approach to him from now on,which they probably have up to now. Like Pert said, he's judged and held accountable exactly like everyone else.
SG – "This gives the leaders an opportunity to really establish, we want to be really clear what we stand for but I don’t want to sit here and convince you, talk to you - I want to show you
GL – " And that starts when?..."
SG – "It started right now and that’s why we’re sitting here today, we want to open ourselves up, be really clear on where we’re at – we need to show you by taking you on this journey with us..."
Like all football clubs, they're saying all the right things but Goodwin said, they need to show us but now they also need to be careful not to over-correct and manufacture positive cultural stories, they'll happen naturally if you do the work culturally you say you'll do and if that means it's as simple as no more off-field blunders and better mid to forward connection on the field, then that's all it'll need to be for them to win another premiership, as the talent is there.
Strong culture also requires those at the top to be able to identify their own weaknesses and get assistance in the areas they need to and for Goodwin that's offensively. 117 inside 50's for just 16 goals in 2 finals games is not the makeup of a premiership team, especially when the grand final resulted in 25 goals total - they're losing 5 - 6 goals.
A mastery of culture will ensure Goodwin improves the team offensively either through his own coaching chops or by bringing an assistant coach in to take the reigns but they haven't to date and if the coach/club can't push for excellence from sheer ego, then how can you expect the players to as well?
GP – "This is the exact same players that after 2020 said enough’s enough and we’re gonna hold ourselves and the other players accountable and build a new culture and program...
GP – "Culture’s not an end point it’s a daily thing to keep in alignment so this is a different group (v 2021), with different dynamics and different challenges but you’re backing in the leaders and the program..."
Melbourne is an interesting case-study as they had beyond poor culture for a multitude of reasons pre-Goodwin, and what he did initially was enough to make a huge impact on the Demons on-field performance but as mentioned above, what worked last year or the year before, will rarely work again and you need to keep adding, keep pivoting and as Hardick said, cook the sausages a thousand times,which in this case is the playing group which has essentially stayed the same throughout his tenure.
GP - "Have we got ahead of ourselves? I don’t even know what that means..."
GL – "Yes you do, you know what getting ahead of yourself means..."
GP – "Does that mean that we have become complacent?..."
GL - "What drives you when you've have had the ultimate success? Am I getting out of bed this early, am I gonna run that extra?..."
GP – "The indication we see if that happens is if our work rate and standards of discipline drop off, but our results from pre-season 2022 were far in excess of 2021, the opposite (of complacency)..."
SG – "We won 10 straight after winning a flag and you don’t do that if you’re complacent and if you’re getting ahead of yourself but we haven’t been able to get done when it mattered..."
Again there seems to be extraordinary amount of focus on on-field success but if solid culture precedes success, then they're balance of focus is a bit out of whack and now they're possibly needing to do an over-correction to get that back to even in a short period of time.
Take Hawthorn for example - they clearly won a Grand Final "ahead of time" in 2008, long before they're culture and behaviors caught up to that level of success, then when they got the balance right, they won 3 on the trot.
SG – "I'm angry and frustrated to think that we have a player (Joel Smith) in round 23, on the eve of finals, not doing everything possible to help the success of our footy team and I can only imagine that’s permeating through our supporters. I haven’t spoken to Joel..."
Sam Edmund – "Why is that?..."
SG – "I have a level of angry/frustration towards it because of everything we’ve just been spoken about..."
We've made our back to ego again here over cultural mastery, with Goodwin putting his own feelings and agenda ahead of his player, taking this exceptionally personally.
Sure it was a completely deadshit moment but the greatest culture in 40 years does not leave any player unsupported in any way.
At local footy culture is bloody hard to build from turnover from within clubs and is often manufactured from other cultural aspects taken from other clubs which sounds great but is often not even aligned with the deep values of your club and values is probably a better place to start and all recruits are made by abide by them regardless of their ability and that's how long term change - culture - is achieved.
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